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a new request from speaker boehner that could actually bring both sides together on the fiscal cliff. >> good, lord, is that possible? also, president morsi sends in tanks to keep the peace as violent protests rage in cairo. we'll have a live report from the region. >> i'll tell you what, it is a mess in egypt, the parties starting to fight each other, meet the new pharaoh, same as the old pharaoh, unbelievable. >> we have full coverage on that coming up, but first, let's get the news live at 5:30 a.m. at 30 rock in new york city. >>> the effort to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff is now a two-man operation. president obama and speaker boehner. thank you. nobody else will be in the room. with 24 days before a year-end deadline, "the new york times" says boehner made the request to clear the negotiation room going forward, leaving it up to himself and the president to reach a deal to avoid automatic tax hikes and deep spending cuts. and while the two men may be negotiating privately, yesterday the president took his mess dwrooj the public, visiting a local virginia family as a part of
a new request from speaker boehner that could actually bring both sides together on the fiscal cliff. >> good, lord, is that possible? also, president morsi sends in tanks to keep the peace as violent protests rage in cairo. we'll have a live report from the region. >> i'll tell you what, it is a mess in egypt, the parties starting to fight each other, meet the new pharaoh, same as the old pharaoh, unbelievable. >> we have full coverage on that coming up, but first, let's get...
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agreement on the fiscal cliff. there are only 28 days left. good morning, everyone, i'm brian shactman, and this is "way too early," the show where you actually never know who you'll be talking to when you wake up. hopeful hopefully mika has some well needed rest and slow probably sill resting from that alabama game which was incredible. a lot to talk about this morning on the news side on monday, december 3rd, including a new initiative by schools that could have a huge impact on the amount of time your kid spends in the classroom. it may be good for parents. i don't know about the kids, though. >>> details surrounding the tragic death of the kansas city chiefs' linebacker and his girlfriend as the chiefs play an emotional game yesterday at arrowhead stadium. >>> first let's get to our top story at 5:30 a.m. on the east coast at 30 rock in new york city. lawmakers now have less than a month to compromise and avoid a year-end deadline that would trigger massive spending cuts and tax hikes at the same time for everybody. behind the scenes negot
agreement on the fiscal cliff. there are only 28 days left. good morning, everyone, i'm brian shactman, and this is "way too early," the show where you actually never know who you'll be talking to when you wake up. hopeful hopefully mika has some well needed rest and slow probably sill resting from that alabama game which was incredible. a lot to talk about this morning on the news side on monday, december 3rd, including a new initiative by schools that could have a huge impact on the...
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cliff gets resolved. in the end, they have got not much. they can say they have a mandate so it's equal, but it really isn't and they know that. >> we seem to know as much about mitt romney's taxes as we do about the loopholes republicans are willing to close in this. they can't offer any specifics. is this a turnoff for the people? >> in fairness we have to recognize that there's been a lack of specifics on both sides here. they are negotiating in public. you notice that that's how this stuff is coming out. it's not phone calls between the two sides or closed-door meetings. we don't know what spending democrats would cut and we haven't even begun the entitlements discussion, which the president is theoretically open to. so there's a lot that still needs to happen. i mean for you and me and normal people, three weeks away may seem like a short time, but there's a feeling that this has barely even begun. >> here's senator bob corker and clairk mccaskill. here it is. >> great detail, very painful cuts to me
cliff gets resolved. in the end, they have got not much. they can say they have a mandate so it's equal, but it really isn't and they know that. >> we seem to know as much about mitt romney's taxes as we do about the loopholes republicans are willing to close in this. they can't offer any specifics. is this a turnoff for the people? >> in fairness we have to recognize that there's been a lack of specifics on both sides here. they are negotiating in public. you notice that that's how...
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how much do you think fiscal cliff was coming up during their golf rounds? >> i'm sure they talked about it because president clinton is a political wonk. what bill clinton showed during his presidency is that there's a way to show common ground with republicans who hate you. they impeached bill clinton but made a deal. they made a deal that was nor the right of where most democrats are. this president has a unique opportunity to make a deal for more towards his left. remember dick cheney said to -- speaking of sequels. remember when dick cheney said you got the high approval ratings you can spend them on the iraq war. republicans what they want is the president to spend some of his popularity and put out unpopular ideas for cuts. democrats don't have an incentive to do that. >> big news. stand by. my thanks. in need to pass along this breaking news from across the pond. we're just learning that prince william and kate middleton are expecting. this is news from clarence house. they will be having their first baby. nbc news is working further to confirm this
how much do you think fiscal cliff was coming up during their golf rounds? >> i'm sure they talked about it because president clinton is a political wonk. what bill clinton showed during his presidency is that there's a way to show common ground with republicans who hate you. they impeached bill clinton but made a deal. they made a deal that was nor the right of where most democrats are. this president has a unique opportunity to make a deal for more towards his left. remember dick cheney...
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right now we're talking about a possible fiscal cliff. we're not off the cliff. >> right. >> if it's january 2nd or 3rd and the stock market is going down by a couple thousand points around the world. the japanese markets, european countries, countries in europe which are precarious are in bigger trouble. the whole thing is going wacky, one guy is going to be standing in the middle of the storm, not grover norquist or some republican, but the president of the united states who has to weather the storm and point the finger across the aisle to someone nobody else in the world knows and says, speaker boehner, would you solve this problem? i'm not sure -- that's why i'm against you on this one. i think times have changed. >> economically the biggest risk is the sequestration. it's not the tax cuts going into effect. and -- >> you mean the millions of dollars -- >> the cuts that will be forced through in the next two years. that's a much bigger risk to the economy. >> therefore? >> therefore, if the president lets this thing -- look, the marke
right now we're talking about a possible fiscal cliff. we're not off the cliff. >> right. >> if it's january 2nd or 3rd and the stock market is going down by a couple thousand points around the world. the japanese markets, european countries, countries in europe which are precarious are in bigger trouble. the whole thing is going wacky, one guy is going to be standing in the middle of the storm, not grover norquist or some republican, but the president of the united states who has...
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one of the big issues is anybody really talking about what to do with the fiscal cliff other than news conferences an the appearances on the floor and the message is there aren't really serious negotiations going back and forth just yet. the critical moments probably later in december when the pressure of the calendar is greater, tamron. >> all right. kelly o'donnell, thank you. joining us now is congressman yarmuth. about a week ago you were on with my colleague and said you were growing more pessimistic about reaching a deal before the back and forth we have seen. how do you feel right now? >> well, i'm still pretty pessimistic about a deal and optimistic to at least avoid the tax part of the cliff. i get the sense that a growing number of republicans are willing to let the senate bill come to the floor here in the house. which would get almost every democratic vote and a fair number of republican votes. as long as speaker boehner doesn't require there be a majority of his majority to pass that bill, i think we can get that done. i have a sense that's kind of a way we're moving. as t
one of the big issues is anybody really talking about what to do with the fiscal cliff other than news conferences an the appearances on the floor and the message is there aren't really serious negotiations going back and forth just yet. the critical moments probably later in december when the pressure of the calendar is greater, tamron. >> all right. kelly o'donnell, thank you. joining us now is congressman yarmuth. about a week ago you were on with my colleague and said you were growing...
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. >>> apparent progress in the so-called fiscal cliff talks. it appears both sides may be digging in their heels. nbc's mike viqueira joins me from the white house with the very latest. if there's anything new to report. seems like everyone is in their own separate corners, mike. >> reporter: it's no longer november. this is december 1st. it's a new month, the last month before we go over the fiscal cliff. now both sides after a lot of bipartisan talk of compromise in that post-election period, alex, it turns out what we have now a typical washington standoff. >> the president of the united states. >> reporter: visiting a toy factory outside philadelphia, the president urged congress to act and avoid the fiscal cliff. if not, he says, taxes go up for everyone, including the middle class. >> it's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a scrooge christmas. >> reporter: with the election over the president has begun a new kind of campaign, for votes in congress. a series of white house meetings with business leaders, a grassro
. >>> apparent progress in the so-called fiscal cliff talks. it appears both sides may be digging in their heels. nbc's mike viqueira joins me from the white house with the very latest. if there's anything new to report. seems like everyone is in their own separate corners, mike. >> reporter: it's no longer november. this is december 1st. it's a new month, the last month before we go over the fiscal cliff. now both sides after a lot of bipartisan talk of compromise in that...
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we talked about being in a stalemate recently in terms of the fiscal cliff. house speaker john boehner and along with the rest of the leadership has presented an offer to the white house in a letter sent today based off something boles said to the supercommittee last year. you see the offer on the screen. 800 billion through tax reform, 600 billion in health savings, 300 billion in mandatory savings, 300 billion further discretionary savings. it nets to a total of $2.2 trillion in savings. what does it mean? in the letter we know the sticking point is the tax rates. the speaker says, quote, notably the new revenue in the boles plan would not be achieved through higher tax rates, which we continue to oppose and will not agree in order to protect small businesses and our economy. instead new revenue would be generated through pro-growth tax reforms that closes special interest loopholes and deductions while lowering rates. you see in this latest proposal while they offer up pour savings by saying, look, we can tax the rich people through the $800 billion figure
we talked about being in a stalemate recently in terms of the fiscal cliff. house speaker john boehner and along with the rest of the leadership has presented an offer to the white house in a letter sent today based off something boles said to the supercommittee last year. you see the offer on the screen. 800 billion through tax reform, 600 billion in health savings, 300 billion in mandatory savings, 300 billion further discretionary savings. it nets to a total of $2.2 trillion in savings. what...
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everyone i talked to in washington wants to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. and most importantly, they don't want to get the blame for it. that's why republicans will probably be motivate d to negotiate with the white house. it might be christmas eve, but in the end, that's what's going to bring them to the table. >> he said after a week or two, there would be the negotiations. he said instead of a cliff, it was like a curb. david, if americans, though, are going to blame the gop more so than the president, how much leverage does that give the president as negotiations are underway? >> i think it gives him substantial leverage right now. that's why you see him not revealing all his cards saying you have to come to us. speaker ba speaker boehner has to start with this. e he would look his speakership. and said sure, mr. president, we lost the election. this has to be his starting position. it's only december 2nd. we have a month, i think, lindsey graham saying we're going to go over the cliff. i don't buy that either. we have a motto get through this. you will
everyone i talked to in washington wants to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. and most importantly, they don't want to get the blame for it. that's why republicans will probably be motivate d to negotiate with the white house. it might be christmas eve, but in the end, that's what's going to bring them to the table. >> he said after a week or two, there would be the negotiations. he said instead of a cliff, it was like a curb. david, if americans, though, are going to blame the gop more...
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and the issues that we are going to address with this sort of fiscal cliff, fiscal slope, hill, wharf you want to call it are going to be very, very important issues. i want to clear one things up. the republicans wants to talk about deductions all the time. one of the key distinctions between letting the taxes go up a little bit on the 2% versus trying to find this money through deductions, is the fact when we're talking about capping deductions, that's something that's going to impact middle class families and middle class earners the most. and so it really is -- i don't want to make this about class warfare. it's really about what is fiscally smart for the economy. most economists are telling us this tax increase will not have very much impact in terms of growth. if you talk about essentially raising taxes on 98% of americans either through some kind of crazy deduction plan or just letting the bush tax cuts go, that can have a very, very severe effect on the economy. >> as usual dr. peterson makes a superb point. president clinton used to say if you want to live like a republican,
and the issues that we are going to address with this sort of fiscal cliff, fiscal slope, hill, wharf you want to call it are going to be very, very important issues. i want to clear one things up. the republicans wants to talk about deductions all the time. one of the key distinctions between letting the taxes go up a little bit on the 2% versus trying to find this money through deductions, is the fact when we're talking about capping deductions, that's something that's going to impact middle...
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cliff plan before the ink is even dry. we'll talk about where the two sides go from here ahead with mike halpern and john meachum when we come back here. [ emily jo ] derrell comes into starbucks with his wife, danielle, almost every weekend. derrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ shirley ] things are sometimes a little tight around the house. i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since derrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then just gave him a little bit of help finding his way. ♪ [ laughs ] [ applause ] i love you. i love you, too. tintroducing a revolutionary. i lit new mascara. clump crusher...crusher. 200% more volume. zero clumps. new clump crusher from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. progresso. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. >>> then i wake up, right? >> right. >>
cliff plan before the ink is even dry. we'll talk about where the two sides go from here ahead with mike halpern and john meachum when we come back here. [ emily jo ] derrell comes into starbucks with his wife, danielle, almost every weekend. derrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ shirley ] things are sometimes a little tight around the house. i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since derrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then...
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potential impact they face from the looming fiscal cliff. it's now just 25 days away. nbc's tracie potts joins us with the details from washington. tracie, good morning to you. >> reporter: lynn, good morning. the white house has been all over social media with this one, asking what would happen if your family had to pay another $2,200 next year in taxes? 100,000 people responded, including that northern virginia family that the president met with yesterday. they said $2,200 for them is a couple months' rent. >> for them to be burdened unnecessarily because democrats and republicans aren't coming together to solve this problem gives you a sense of the costs involved in very personal terms. >> reporter: the other big issue here on capitol hill, raising the debt limit. the president wants a new authority. mitch mcconnell filibustered his own bill. the senate minority leader filibustered his own bill that he had raised earlier about raising the debt ceiling. he called for a vote. democrats called his bluff and agreed to the vote. then he talked
potential impact they face from the looming fiscal cliff. it's now just 25 days away. nbc's tracie potts joins us with the details from washington. tracie, good morning to you. >> reporter: lynn, good morning. the white house has been all over social media with this one, asking what would happen if your family had to pay another $2,200 next year in taxes? 100,000 people responded, including that northern virginia family that the president met with yesterday. they said $2,200 for them is a...
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this fiscal cliff we talk about, i'm afraid is no bungee jump. what goes down doesn't by necessity come back up. this is why i've warned to know the president is working here for an early deal, one before christmas. this country needs to get back on its feet economically. we went through financial chaos under w. president obama came in to right things. he's been doing it, gradually getting us to forget how bad things were. fortunately for him the voters remember how bad they were. that's one reason they don't blame obama for the weak economy, they still blame w. this isn't about right or wrong. it's about being smart and not putting the country a
this fiscal cliff we talk about, i'm afraid is no bungee jump. what goes down doesn't by necessity come back up. this is why i've warned to know the president is working here for an early deal, one before christmas. this country needs to get back on its feet economically. we went through financial chaos under w. president obama came in to right things. he's been doing it, gradually getting us to forget how bad things were. fortunately for him the voters remember how bad they were. that's one...
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. >> reporter: right now it's looking more likely that we could, could, go over that fiscal cliff at the end of the month because right now, negotiations here are at a stand still. president obama talks to the business round table today after telling bloomberg he absolutely won't bunch. the wealthiest americans must pay more. >> we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> reporter: he may be in a good position to wait it out. a new poll found more half of americans will blame republicans if we go over the fiscal cliff. >> republicans do not want to touch one hair on the head of one person making over $250,000. that is the rub. >> they've got to come with some specific revenue. they refuse to do that. >> reporter: even other republicans are split on john boehner's plan to avoid tax hikes all together and admit negotiations are going nowhere. >> nothing going on privately that's not going on publicly. >> reporter: republicans say the president needs to meet them halfway. >> he's got to be serious. he's offered more spending, more stimulus than offering any new cuts. >> repo
. >> reporter: right now it's looking more likely that we could, could, go over that fiscal cliff at the end of the month because right now, negotiations here are at a stand still. president obama talks to the business round table today after telling bloomberg he absolutely won't bunch. the wealthiest americans must pay more. >> we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> reporter: he may be in a good position to wait it out. a new poll found more half of americans...
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it comes around the issue of the fiscal cliff talks about what the party wants to be. whether there's going to be a tea party 2 or whether there's something of a vacuum that doesn't get filled with demint leaving the senate. >> all right. david, thank you so much. we'll be watching "meet the press" this sunday as we do every sunday. eugene, thank you as well. your latest column online at washingtonpost.com. >> guard that mustache, gene. >> i'm going to guard it with my life. >> and congressman emanuel cleaver, great to have you on set with us. >>> coming up, nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd. and later in the show, "the economist" crunched the numbers and came up with the best countries to be born in in 2013. and the united states does not top their list. we'll find out who does ahead on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] there are plenty of reasons to be jolly at the chevy year-end event because chevy's giving more. more efficiency with sonic and cruze... more function in equinox and traverse... more dependability with the legendary silverado... and more s
it comes around the issue of the fiscal cliff talks about what the party wants to be. whether there's going to be a tea party 2 or whether there's something of a vacuum that doesn't get filled with demint leaving the senate. >> all right. david, thank you so much. we'll be watching "meet the press" this sunday as we do every sunday. eugene, thank you as well. your latest column online at washingtonpost.com. >> guard that mustache, gene. >> i'm going to guard it with...
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. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked about two things, though. one, as you say, is about certainty and they say that businesses need that certainty to start hiring but they've also warned that if tax rates go up on the wealthy that would have have a negative impact. >> i think republican orthodoxy is bad. if you raise taxes on the wealthy, absolutely, it's going to drag on growth a bit. but the hope is among the analysts is that the positive impact of getting certainty and beyond just certainty, seeing that washington can avoid a debt limit fight, that might help boost confidence that would be very conducive to job creation. >> you bring up a
. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked...
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the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. >> joining me now is former vermont governor howard dean and msnbc's krystal ball. governor dean, our treasury secretary is a very carwful speaker. when asked if they're prepared to go off the cliff, his first word was absolutely. there was nothing, nothing could be more clear that this administration means what they say about getting what they want at this point. >> yeah. the only problem is -- this is a little initially going to team like heresy, the truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. that's a good start. we won't get out of the probl
the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that...
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if we all end up diving off this fiscal cliff, it doesn't make the deficit worse. it makes the deficit better. it would go a long way toward curing the deficit, but the deficit isn't the immediate problem for most people, the weak economy is. >> i agree. >> and if we dive off the fiscal cliff, the economy could get much weaker. that's -- >> by the way -- >> -- millions of americans. it's a problem for barack obama. >> just to back you up, i really think the great thing is the economy is just starting to lift up a. the unemployment rate is really starting to come down. we're getting good job production. thank you so much, ladies, for coming on tonight. thanks for the sharp thinking we got tonight. >>> up next, if you can't win by the rules, change then. that's what republicans are trying to do in pennsylvania. they don't like the lerer toal college because it didn't work for them. come back for the place for politics. derate alzheimer's, you'll also care about our new offer. you get access to nurses who can help with your questions. and your loved one can get exelon
if we all end up diving off this fiscal cliff, it doesn't make the deficit worse. it makes the deficit better. it would go a long way toward curing the deficit, but the deficit isn't the immediate problem for most people, the weak economy is. >> i agree. >> and if we dive off the fiscal cliff, the economy could get much weaker. that's -- >> by the way -- >> -- millions of americans. it's a problem for barack obama. >> just to back you up, i really think the great...
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the 98% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to ç go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't s
the 98% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to...
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cliff. michael eric dyson and donna genteel-o'donnell on the political fallout. howard dean on chris christie's big decision on the obama care exchange. and apple's ceo breaks big news to nbc's brian williams. >> next year, we will do one of our existing mac lines in the united states. >> tonight, a story of economic patriotism in an era of bain capital with e.j. dionne. good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. the reality start to set in on members of the republican party. republican senator jim demint of south carolina is leaving kplil capitol hill to become president of the heritage foundation. don't cry for demint. the out-going president of the heritage foundation made $1.1 million according to 2010 tax filings. demint will do just fine. it's not just about the money. the senator realizes he could be more effective for the conservative movement if he's not attached to the dysfunctional party known as the republican party. in a statement, demint said "i'm leaving the
cliff. michael eric dyson and donna genteel-o'donnell on the political fallout. howard dean on chris christie's big decision on the obama care exchange. and apple's ceo breaks big news to nbc's brian williams. >> next year, we will do one of our existing mac lines in the united states. >> tonight, a story of economic patriotism in an era of bain capital with e.j. dionne. good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. the reality start to set in on members of the...
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we've been talking, dr. brzezinski, about the fiscal cliff. i'd love your take on it, what signal it sends to the rest of the world that we don't seem to be able to put our economic house in order. >> well, the way you put it, you give the answer. your answer is right. we look a little bit disorderly. indecisive, leaderless. that's a real problem. and that's a problem that concerns me particularly on foreign affairs. the presidency, not just president obama, but the presidency in recent years has lost some of the terrain that they used to dominate in the making of foreign policy. i think president obama has to make a serious effort to regain it because he lost some of it himself. >> lost terrain to congress or to whom? >> to congress and to the world. that is to say his capacity to take decisive actions has been limited by congressional intervention, by the influence of lobbies, by the sense that he gives good speeches, very good speeches, and he really understands the world, but the follow-through in terms of policy is somewhat not there. so
we've been talking, dr. brzezinski, about the fiscal cliff. i'd love your take on it, what signal it sends to the rest of the world that we don't seem to be able to put our economic house in order. >> well, the way you put it, you give the answer. your answer is right. we look a little bit disorderly. indecisive, leaderless. that's a real problem. and that's a problem that concerns me particularly on foreign affairs. the presidency, not just president obama, but the presidency in recent...
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. >> the whole thing about investing-- and obviously everybody's paying attention to the fiscal cliff. businesspeople i've talked to at this point are saying, listen, closing loopholes, raising rates, we don't care because if there is damage done there, it's much less than not reaching a deal. so reach a deal first. we don't even care anymore about this stuff, just get it done. but in terms of investing these days, you know, it's tough out there, of course. the idea is to be a contrarian, to think different. that's the only way, really, to get ahead over the long run. we have a story about jack bogel who has a company called vanguard, now $2.2 trillion colossus that he's built up by having low-cost index funds which people can't get their brains wrapped ar eped around, a really good strategy. we have a story about apple which is kind of the stock of our time. >> we asked the question, can you continue to be obsessed with apple stock? >> yes, i think you can. what's interesting about apple, and it's, again, sort of a contrarian position. a lot of people think the stock is really expens
. >> the whole thing about investing-- and obviously everybody's paying attention to the fiscal cliff. businesspeople i've talked to at this point are saying, listen, closing loopholes, raising rates, we don't care because if there is damage done there, it's much less than not reaching a deal. so reach a deal first. we don't even care anymore about this stuff, just get it done. but in terms of investing these days, you know, it's tough out there, of course. the idea is to be a contrarian,...